Mr. Crafard. I don’t know that, either.

Mr. Hubert. You don’t know?

Mr. Crafard. It must have been 3 or 4 hours. Probably about halfway between Chicago and Lansing.

Mr. Hubert. Do you think you were with him about 8 hours, then?

Mr. Crafard. I think so; I’m not sure.

Mr. Hubert. And he picked you up about dark?

Mr. Crafard. Yes; that is about a 400- or 500-mile ride.

Mr. Hubert. He picked you up about dark in Chicago?

Mr. Crafard. Just about toward dark.

Mr. Hubert. Five in the afternoon?