Sunday, November 17th.—Mr Vaughan came to me yesterday, and said, that Mr Oswald had that morning called upon Mr Jay, and told him, if he had known as much the day before, as he had since learned, he would have written to go home. Mr Vaughan said, Mr Fitzherbert had received a letter from Mr Townshend, that the compensation would be insisted on. Mr Oswald wanted Mr Jay to go to England; thought he could convince the Ministry. Mr Jay said, he must go with or without the knowledge and advice of the Court, and, in either case, it would give rise to jealousies. He could not go. Mr Vaughan said, he had determined to go, on account of the critical state of his family, his wife being probably abed. He should be glad to converse freely with me, and obtain from me all the lights and arguments against the tories, even the history of their worst actions. That, in case it should be necessary to run them down, it might be done, or at least expose them, for their true history was little known in England. I told him, I must be excused, it was a subject that I had never been desirous of obtaining information upon; that I pitied those people too much, to be willing to aggravate the sorrows and sufferings, even of those who had deserved the worst. It might not be amiss to reprint the letters of Bernard, Hutchinson, and Oliver, to show their rise. It might not be amiss to read the history of Wyoming, in the annual register for 1778 or 9, to recollect the prison ships, and the churches at New York, where the garrison of Fort Washington were starved, in order to make them enlist in refugee corps, it might not be amiss to recollect the burning of cities, and the thefts of plate, negroes, and tobacco.
I entered into the same arguments with him that I had used with Mr Oswald, to show that we could do nothing; Congress nothing; the time it would take to consult the States, and the reason to believe, that all of them would at last decide against it. I showed him, that it would be a religious question with some; a moral one with others; and a political one with more; an economical one with very few. I shewed him the ill effect which would be produced upon the American mind by this measure; how much it would contribute to perpetuate alienation against England, and how French emissaries might, by means of these men, blow up the flames of animosity and war. I showed him how the whig interest, and the opposition, might avail themselves of this subject in Parliament, and how they might embarrass the Minister.
He went out to Passy for a passport, and in the evening called upon me again; he said he found Dr Franklin's sentiments to be the same with Mr Jay's and mine, and hoped he should be able to convince Lord Shelburne. He was pretty confident it would work right. The Ministry and nation were not informed upon the subject. Lord Shelburne had told him, that no part of his office gave him so much pain, as the levee he held for these people, and hearing their stories of their families and estates, their losses, sufferings, and distresses. Mr Vaughan said, he had picked up here a good deal of information about these people from Mr Allen, and other Americans.
In the evening, M. de Lafayette came in and told me he had been to see M. de Fleury on the subject of a loan. He told him, he must afford America this year a subsidy of twenty millions. M. de Fleury said, France had already spent two hundred and fifty millions in the American war, and that they could not allow any more money to her; that there was a great deal of money in America; that the King's troops had been paid and subsisted there; that the British army had been subsisted and paid there, &c. The Marquis said, that little of the subsistence or pay of the British had gone into any hands, but those of the tories within the lines. I said, that more money went in for their goods, than came out for provisions, or anything. The Marquis added to M. de Fleury, that Mr Adams had a plan for going to the States-General for a loan, or a subsidy. M. de Fleury said, he did not want the assistance of Mr Adams, to get money in Holland, he could have what he would. The Marquis said, Mr Adams would be glad of it, he did not want to go, but was willing to take the trouble, if necessary.
The Marquis said, that he should dine with the Queen tomorrow, and would give her a hint to favor us, that he should take leave in a few days, and should go in the fleet that was to sail from Brest; that he wanted the advice of Dr Franklin, Mr Jay, and me, before he went, &c. said that there was a report, that M. Gerard had been in England, and that M. de Rayneval was gone. I told him, I saw M. Gerard at Mr Jay's a few evenings ago. He said, he did not believe M. Gerard had been; that he had mentioned it to Count de Vergennes, and he did not appear confused at all, but said M. Gerard was here about the limits of Alsace. The Marquis said, that he believed the reason why Count de Vergennes said so little about the progress of Mr Fitzherbert with him was, because the difficulty about peace was made by the Spaniards, and he was afraid of making the Americans still more angry with Spain. He knew the Americans were very angry with the Spaniards.
Monday, November 18th.—Returned Mr Oswald's visit. He says, Mr. Strachey, who sat out the 5th, did not reach London until the 10th. Couriers are three, four, or five days in going, according as the winds are.
We went over the old ground concerning the tories. He began to use arguments with me to relax. I told him, he must not think of that; but must bend all his thoughts to convince and persuade his Court to give it up; that if the terms now before his Court were not accepted, the whole negotiation would be broken off, and this Court would probably be so angry with Mr Jay and me, that they would set their engines to work upon Congress, get us recalled, and some others sent, who would do exactly as this Court would have them. He said, he thought that very probable. In another part of his conversation he said, we should all have gold snuff boxes, set with diamonds; you will certainly have the picture. I told him no, I had dealt too freely with this Court, I had not concealed from them any useful and necessary truth, although it was disagreeable. Indeed, I neither expected, or desired any favors from them, nor would I accept any; I should not refuse any customary compliment of that sort, but it never had been, or would be offered to me. My fixed principle, never to be the tool of any man, nor the partisan of any nation, would forever exclude me from the smiles and favors of Courts.
In another part of the conversation I said, that when I was young and addicted to reading, I had heard about dancing upon the points of metaphysical needles; but, by mixing in the world, I had found the points of political needles finer and sharper than the metaphysical ones. I told him the story of Josiah Quincy's conversation with Lord Shelburne, in 1774, in which he pointed out to him the plan of carrying on the war, which has been pursued this year, by remaining inactive on land, and cruising upon the coast to distress our trade.
He said he had been contriving an artificial truce, since he found we were bound by treaty not to agree to a separate truce. He had proposed to the Ministry, to give orders to their men-of-war, and privateers, not to take any unarmed American vessels.
I said to him, supposing the armed neutrality should acknowledge American independence, by admitting Mr Dana, who is now at Petersburg with a commission in his pocket for that purpose, to subscribe to the principles of their marine treaty; the King of Great Britain could find no fault with it; he could never hereafter say it was an affront or hostility; he had done it himself. Would not all neutral vessels have a right to go to America? And could not all American trade be carried on in neutral bottoms? I said to him, that England would always be a country, which would deserve much of the attention of America, independently of all consideration of blood, origin, language, morals, &c.; merely as a commercial people, she would forever claim the respect of America, because a great part of her commerce would be with her, provided she came to her senses, and made peace with us, without any points in the treaty, that should ferment in the minds of the people. If the people should think themselves unjustly treated, they would never be easy, and they are so situated as to be able to hurt any power. The fisheries, the Mississippi, the tories, were points that would rankle, and that nation that should offend our people in any of them, would sooner or later feel the consequences.