Mr Jay, M. Couteulx, and Mr Grand, came in. Mr Grand says there is a great fermentation in England, and that they talk of uniting Lord North and Mr Fox in administration; the Duke of Portland to come in, and Keppel to go out. But this is wild.
You are afraid, said Mr Oswald today, of being made the tools of the powers of Europe. Indeed I am, said I. What powers, said he? All of them, said I. It is obvious that all the powers of Europe will be continually manœuvring with us, to work us into their real or imaginary balances of power. They will all wish to make of us a makeweight candle, when they are making out their pounds. Indeed it is not surprising; for we shall very often, if not always be able to turn the scale. But I think it ought to be our rule not to meddle, and that of all the powers of Europe, not to desire us, or perhaps even to permit us to interfere, if they can help it. I beg of you, said he, to get out of your head the idea, that we shall disturb you. What, said I, do you yourself believe, that your Ministers, Governors, and even nation, will not wish to get us of your side in any future war? As for the Governors, said he, we will take off their heads if they do an improper thing towards you. Thank you for your good will, said I, which I feel to be sincere. But nations do not feel as you and I do. And your nation, when it gets a little refreshed from the fatigues of the war; when men and money are become plenty, and allies at hand, will not feel as it does now. We never can be such sots, said he, as to think of differing again with you. Why, said I, in truth I have never been able to comprehend the reason, why you ever thought of differing with us.
Monday, November 25th. Doctor Franklin, Mr Jay, and myself, at 11 o'clock, met at Mr Oswald's lodgings. Mr Strachey told us, he had been to London, and waited personally on every one of the King's cabinet council, and had communicated the last propositions to them. They every one of them unanimously condemned that respecting the tories, so that that unhappy affair stuck, as he foresaw and foretold it would.
The affair of the fishery too was somewhat altered. They could not admit us to dry on the shores of Nova Scotia, nor to fish within three leagues of the coast of Cape Breton. The boundary they did not approve. They thought it too extended, too vast a country; but they would not make a difficulty. That if these terms were not admitted, the whole affair must be thrown into Parliament, where every man would be for insisting on restitution to the refugees. He talked about excepting a few, by name, of the most obnoxious of the refugees.
I could not help observing, that the ideas respecting the fishery appeared to me to come piping hot from Versailles. I quoted to them the words of our treaty with France, in which the indefinite and exclusive right to the fishery on the western side of Newfoundland was secured against us, according to the true construction of the treaties of Utrecht and Paris. I showed them the 12th and 13th articles of the treaty of Utrecht, by which the French were admitted to fish from Cape Bonavista to Point Riche. I related to them the manner in which the cod and haddock came into the rivers, harbors, creeks, and up to the very wharves, on all the northern coasts of America, in the spring, in the month of April, so that you have nothing to do, but step into a boat, and bring in a parcel of fish in a few hours. But that in May they began to withdraw. We have a saying in Boston that, "when the blossoms fall, the haddock begin to crawl," i.e. to move into deep water; so that in summer you must go out some distance to fish; at Newfoundland it was the same. The fish in March and April were in shore, in all the creeks, bays, and harbors, i.e. within three leagues of the coasts or shores of Newfoundland and Nova Scotia; that neither French nor English, could go from Europe and arrive early enough for the first fare; that our vessels could, being so much nearer, an advantage which God and nature had put into our hands; but this advantage of ours had been an advantage to England; because our fish had been sold in Spain and Portugal for gold and silver, and that gold and silver sent to London for manufactures; that this would be the course again; that France foresaw it, and wished to deprive England of it, by persuading her to deprive us of it; that it would be a master stroke of policy if she could succeed; but England must be completely the dupe before she could succeed.
There were three lights in which it might be viewed. 1st. As a nursery for seamen. 2d. As a source of profit. 3d. As a source of contention. As a nursery of seamen, did England consider us as worse enemies than France? Had she rather France should have the seamen than America? The French marine was nearer and more menacing than ours. As a source of profit, had England rather France should supply the markets of Lisbon and Cadiz with fish, and take the gold and silver, than we? France would never spend any of that money in London. We should spend it all there, very nearly. As a source of contention, how could we restrain our fishermen (the boldest men alive) from fishing in prohibited places? How could our men see the French admitted to fish, and themselves excluded by the English? It would then be a cause of disputes, and such seeds France might wish to sow. That I wished for two hours' conversation on the subject with one of the King's council. If I did not convince him he was undesignedly betraying the interest of his Sovereign; I was mistaken. Strachey said, perhaps I would put down some observations in writing upon it; I said, with all my heart, provided I had the approbation of my colleagues; but I could do nothing of the kind without submitting it to their judgments; and, that whatever I had said or should say, upon the subject, however strongly I might express myself was always to be understood, with submission to my colleagues. I showed them Captain Coffin's letter, and gave them his character. His words are;
"Our fishermen from Boston, Salem, Newbury, Marblehead, Cape Ann, Cape Cod, and Nantucket, have frequently gone out on the fisheries to the Straits of Belleisle, north part of Newfoundland, and the banks adjacent thereto, there to continue the whole season, and have made use of the north part of Newfoundland, the Labrador coast, in the Straits of Belleisle, to cure their fish, which they have taken in and about those coasts. I have known several instances of vessels going there to load in the fall of the year, with the fish taken and cured at these places, for Spain, Portugal, &c. I was once concerned in a voyage of that kind myself, and speak from my own knowledge.
"From Cape Sables, to the Isle of Sables, and so on to the Banks of Newfoundland, are a chain of banks, extending all along the coast, and almost adjoining each other, and those banks are where our fishermen go for the first fare, in the early part of the season. Their second fare is on the Banks of Newfoundland, where they continue to fish, till prevented by the tempestuous and boisterous winds, which prevail in the fall of the year on that coast. Their third and last fare is generally made near the coast of Cape Sables, or banks adjoining thereto, where they are not only relieved from those boisterous gales, but have an asylum to fly to in case of emergency, as that coast is lined, from the head of Cape Sables to Halifax, with most excellent harbors. The sea-cow fishery was, before the present war, carried on to great advantage, particularly from Nantucket and Cape Cod, in and about the river St Lawrence, at the Island St Johns and Anticosti, Bay of Chaleurs, and the Magdalen Islands, which were the most noted of all for that fishery. This oil has the preference to all others, except spermaceti."
Mr Jay desired to know whether Mr Oswald had now power to conclude and sign with us. Strachey said he had, absolutely. Mr Jay desired to know if the propositions now delivered us, were their ultimatum. Strachey seemed loath to answer, but at last said, no. We agreed these were good signs of sincerity. Bancroft came in this evening, and said, it was reported, that a courier had arrived from M. Rayneval, in London, and that after it, the Count de Vergennes told the King, that he had the peace in his pocket, that he was now master of the peace.
Tuesday, November 26th. Breakfasted at Mr Jay's, with Dr Franklin, in consultation upon the propositions made to us yesterday, by Mr Oswald. We agreed unanimously, to answer him, that we could not consent to the article respecting the refugees, as it now stands. Dr Franklin read a letter upon the subject, which he had prepared to Mr Oswald, upon the subject of the tories, which we had agreed with him, that he should read, as containing his private sentiments. We had a vast deal of conversation upon the subject. My colleagues opened themselves, and made many observations concerning the conduct, crimes, and demerits of those people. Before dinner Mr Fitzherbert came in, whom I had never seen before, a gentleman of about thirtythree; seems pretty discreet and judicious, and did not discover those airs of vanity, which are imputed to him. He came in consequence of the desire I expressed yesterday, of knowing the state of the negotiation between him and the Count de Vergennes, respecting the fishery. He told us, that the Count was for fixing the boundaries where each nation should fish; he must confess he thought the idea plausible, for that there had been great dissensions among the fishermen of the two nations; that the French Marine Office had an apartment full of complaints and representations of disputes; that the French pretended, that Cape Ray was the Point Riche.