He received me with more than usual cordiality. The conversation turned at first on the situation of the southern States, the late combat between the fleets in the Chesapeake, and General Greene's retreat. He appeared to apprehend much danger from what he called the delicate situation of our army there, and the blockade of the reinforcement intended for it, under the Marquis de la Fayette. I endeavored to remove such of his fears as appeared to be ill-founded, and (though without leaving room to suppose that the operations of Spain were indispensable to our safety,) represented to him the good policy and probable success of France and Spain's seriously turning their attention and force to the expulsion of the enemy from America. I then repeated what I had often before remarked to him, respecting the influence which the hesitations and delays of Spain in forming a treaty with us must naturally have on the hopes and fears of Britain. I announced to him formally the completion of our confederation by the accession of Maryland, and after dwelling on the advantages, which the States and their allies might expect from it, I endeavored to impress him with an opinion, that a cordial union between France, Spain, Holland, and America, supported by vigorous measures, would soon reduce the enemy to the necessity of listening to reasonable terms of peace.
The Count replied, generally, that he was very minutely informed of the state of our affairs. That the good dispositions of Congress towards Spain had not as yet been evinced in a manner the King expected, and that no one advantage had hitherto been proposed by America to Spain, to induce the latter to come into the measures we desired. That the views of Congress were such as would not permit his Majesty to form a treaty with the States, but that the King was an honest man, and I might again and again assure Congress, that he would never suffer them to be sacrificed to Britain, but on the contrary would with constancy maintain the friendship he had professed for them. That Britain had in vain attempted to deceive Spain; that Mr Cumberland had been sent here for that express purpose, but that, however possible it might be for Britain to vanquish, she would never be able to deceive Spain; that he wished Congress had been more disposed to oblige the King. He knew indeed that opposition in sentiments must necessarily prevail in public bodies, but that he hoped for the best. That I ought to preach to them forcibly, for that he thought a good preacher (un bon prédicateur,) would do much good, thereby intimating, as I understood it, that Congress were not sufficiently apprised of the importance of Spain, and the policy of complying with her demands.
To all this I briefly remarked, that his Excellency's knowledge of American affairs must convince him, that it was not in their power to give his Majesty other proofs of their attachment than what they had already done, and that if he alluded to the affair of the Mississippi, I could only add one remark to those which I had often made to him on that head, viz. that even if a desire of gratifying his Majesty should ever incline Congress to yield to him a point so essential to their interest, yet it still remained a question whether new delays and obstacles to a treaty would not arise to postpone it.
The Count smiled, said he always spoke frankly, and that whenever I should announce to him my having authority to yield that point, I might depend on his being explicit, and candid, but as matters stood at present, he could say nothing on that head. He then informed me, that M. Gardoqui would set out for America the beginning of June. He said it might be in my power to furnish some useful hints and observations relative to the objects and conduct of his mission, adding that he reposed full confidence in me, and wished that I would also consider whether there were any particular reasons which might render it advisable, either to hasten or retard his going.
I suspected there was too much meaning in all this to admit of my entering into these discussions without time for further reflection; and, therefore, without seeming to avoid it, I told the Count I was happy to hear, that M. Gardoqui was so near his departure. That I considered myself much honored by his requesting my remarks relative to it, and that I was sure Congress would draw agreeable conclusions from his mission. That I should write by him to Congress, and as they would expect to learn from me the precise character in which they were to receive, and consider him, it became necessary, that his Excellency should favor me with that information, as well to enable me to transmit the proper advices to Congress, as to make the remarks which he had done me the honor to request. That I conceived this to be the more indispensable, because if M. Gardoqui should carry no public testimonials from this Court to Congress, he could only be considered by them as a private gentleman, and all his intercourse with Congress would of consequence be subjected to all the inconveniences resulting from it.
This topic carried the conversation off the delicate ground to which the Count had led it. He admitted the propriety of my being exactly apprized of the nature of M. Gardoqui's commission, said that as yet it was not decided, and therefore for the present could only give me his opinion of what it would probably be.
He observed that circumstances did not render it proper, that he should go as Minister, though perhaps it might he proper to give him contingent powers. That it was the common practice, where Courts sent to each other persons charged with their affairs, in a character below that of Minister, to give no other credentials than a letter of advice from the Minister of the Court sending to the Minister of the Court receiving the person in question. That the same practice was about to be pursued by Spain towards Prussia, and had been observed in other instances; therefore, he believed the like method would be adopted in this case. That if it should be purposed to give M. Gardoqui a letter authenticating his being an agent of Spain, it would be either to the President, or the Secretary of Congress, and asked me which of the two would be the most proper.
Whether he really was uninformed on this point, or whether he asked the question merely to try my candor, cannot easily be determined. I told him honestly, that Congress had no Secretary or Minister of State for general purposes, nor for foreign affairs particularly, and that neither the President nor Secretary of Congress could regularly be considered in that light. That there was a committee of Congress, whose appointment came near to that of Secretary for foreign affairs, but that I had heard Congress were about establishing a more proper and regular mode of conducting the affairs committed to that committee, and had perhaps already done it. That therefore it was difficult for me to give his Excellency a clear and decided opinion on the subject, and the more so as the letters which I daily expected to receive from the President, and which probably contained exact information relative to this very matter, had not yet come to my hands. He seemed very well satisfied, and extended his civilities so far as to say, that if at any time the warmth of his temper had led him into any harshness of expression, he hoped I would forget it. I told him, and that was the fact, that I did not recollect any part of his behavior to me, which required that apology. He desired me to wait upon him again on the Wednesday next.
As to the instructions of the 15th of February, I had every reason to wish it had been a secret to the Ministry. The propriety of them is a subject without my province. To give decided opinions of the views and designs of Courts always appeared to me hazardous, especially as they often change, and as different men will often draw different conclusions from the same facts. This consideration has constantly induced me to state facts accurately and minutely to Congress, and leave them to judge for themselves, and be influenced only by their own opinions.
I could not forbear, however, seeing the danger to which the proviso contained in that instruction exposed me. I have no reason to flatter myself, that, more fortunate than others, the propriety and policy of my conduct will not be drawn, at least impliedly, into doubt. If I should, on a persuasion that this cession would be unalterably insisted upon by Spain, yield that point, I am certain that many little half-created doubts and questions would be cast into, and cultivated in America. If, on the other hand, I should be of opinion that this point could be gained, and the event prove otherwise, it would soon be whispered, what rich supplies and golden opportunities the United States had lost by my obstinacy.