A. No.
Q. Then how were the experiments continued in order to create severe local inflammation in warlike wounds?
A. We kept to our old technique, the infusion, that is an incision on the outer side of the calf far from the joint, where it is not under pressure, and where the cast does not hurt it. In other words, we chose the most suitable place according to all medical considerations. Then we administered the infection in a place where the circulation of the blood had been reduced.
Q. What do you know about the deaths, and why was there no amputation in these cases?
A. I believe that I can remember the three deaths very well. But I only remember three—I have always testified that—with all the things that have happened in the meantime and all the patients I have taken care of. It was not that Fischer or I overlooked an amputation, and it is certainly not true that an amputation can save the life of the patient in all cases of gangrene. As I remember the case histories, the most serious patient had a large abscess on the hip. Probably the corresponding glands had been affected. The infection on the calf and the abscess on the hip—what can I amputate? One can amputate when the infection is limited to the calf. We did not have such cases because we forced the infection to the place where we wanted it, but we were not able to prevent the infection spreading to a different area and running into the blood vessel as does happen occasionally. There are infections of the veins, and then the patient dies suddenly, and it is a definite risk to perform an operation because the power of resistance is on the borderline, hanging by a hair. If we perform such major operations to save the patient’s life, then you may assume that we would have undertaken an amputation, or would you assume that a surgeon of my experience does not know when he has to amputate? Unfortunately that is the first thing that an operative surgeon like Fischer learns in wartime, to amputate in time.
As far as I remember, the deaths were from an abscess of the glands, an inflammation of the veins, an inflammation of the blood vessels, and one died from general sickness, in spite of all transfusions. This happens in cases of infection when there is no possibility of stopping the infection by local surgery. But one cannot conclude that any medical measures which should have been taken were overlooked, because just by seeing a case history from a distance one cannot decide that at such and such a moment the patient should have been operated on. I am convinced that in these three cases which Fischer reported to me exactly, which I saw, and in which the therapy was discussed, that we certainly did not overlook anything. As far as one can humanly say, we did what we considered necessary.
I wanted to publish this result or to report it to the public from the beginning. Therefore, it was obvious from the very beginning, if you did not assume that I had any humane or surgical motives, that I did everything in order to be able to publish the results.
[40] Complete testimony is recorded in mimeographed transcript, 20 December 1947, pp. 838-847.