A. With the live and virulent dry vaccine, yes.
Q. Well, that is certainly an inarticulate way of saying that, isn’t it?
A. This is correspondence between experts, and they know what it’s about.
Q. You state yourself that you are still not sure exactly what Haagen did, although you were down there in the middle of 1943 and got him back on the pay roll of the Luftwaffe, and you knew he was staying at the laboratory and you knew he was going to work on typhus vaccines, but you now sit here and say you don’t know exactly what he was doing.
A. Yes. That is true. I have given considerable information here about Haagen’s work, and I have gone to considerable pains to get it all together; but of course I can’t give you complete information, simply because all these experiments were not under our direction and supervision.
Q. Herr Professor, the first time the question of subsequent infection came up was in a letter dated 1944, and you spent the best part of a day rationalizing “subsequent infection” as meaning something entirely different—that it was simply a subsequent vaccination, after the man had already been vaccinated by the dead vaccine. Now, if you were told on 29 November 1943 that he was going to carry out immunization and subsequent infection experiments, you certainly would have known as a matter of fact what he was doing, and you would not need to speculate on this stand as you did yesterday. These words are entirely susceptible to the meaning that they mean exactly what they say.
A. At this stage of his experiments Haagen did not yet have a fully developed vaccine. He was working exclusively on the problem of weakening the reaction to this live virulent vaccine. That was the problem he was dealing with at the end of 1943 and the beginning of 1944. He was looking for various methods of achieving this aim.
Q. What does he mean in the last paragraph when he says, “For the time being, we will concentrate on an epidemic culture in the form of a virus, which we have received from Giroud in the meantime”?
A. That means that up to that time he had worked with a murine strain, and that now for the development of the dry vaccine he wanted in addition to use a strain of Rickettsia-Prowazeki.
Q. Well, I now want to point out to you again that I am having considerable difficulty in construing the word “infection” to mean vaccination.