Witness Haagen: I only heard the details about these Buchenwald experiments from the documents in this trial. Moreover, Dr. Ding’s report at the consulting conference in 1943 must be mentioned. I heard of Professor Rose’s protest against these human experiments at that time.
Q. You had no connection then with these Ding experiments?
A. I never worked with Ding and knew of his work only from the report at this consulting conference.
Q. The prosecution has deduced regarding these Buchenwald experiments that the efficacy of the vaccine was tested by subsequent infection with pathogenic virus. Will you please say what you have to about that?
A. This attitude on the part of the prosecution ignores the fact, as I said several times, that I never had a strain of virus which is pathogenic to human beings, consequently, I could not carry out an infection such as the prosecution seems to assume. I never thought of carrying out such subsequent infection with a virus pathogenic to human beings, because I was working as a scientist with my own material, and wasn’t testing mixture for other vaccines at all.
As I have already said, on the occasion of Aherinesliev, I vaccinated some of the inmates there, with an attenuated virus in order to minimize the reactions to the vaccine. I thought that in the next vaccination I would carry out these primary vaccinations with dead vaccine and I wanted to use such a vaccine that used a dead virus. In the meantime, between Schirmeck vaccines and the new vaccinations in Natzweiler, I had carried my work to the point where I no longer needed a dead vaccine. But the previous history was this: Professor Rose, by sending me this Copenhagen vaccine, thought he was supporting and helping me. And he suggested that I include this dead vaccine in my series of vaccines. Let me say regarding this Copenhagen vaccine that it was a liver vaccine which is said to be much more effective than the other dead vaccines, particularly more so than the lung vaccine; and from it, in dead form, a better protection could be expected. Now, it was my point of view that if we distributed it over 100 persons again and did not get other persons, there would not be enough vaccinations to be of value for comparisons. So, I didn’t see any reason for introducing the Copenhagen vaccine. I told this to Professor Rose and Professor Rose answered in the form we have seen in the letter which constitutes this document. This would have given some basis for comparison between the two vaccines. However, I didn’t use it because I was no longer interested in it since, in the meantime, we had succeeded somewhat in attenuating our own virus so that we could do without it. I heard no more from Professor Rose about this vaccine and never received the Copenhagen vaccine.
Q. Then you say, Professor, that this was a dead vaccine, namely the Copenhagen vaccine, and there was also your own dead vaccine which was to be used for a preliminary vaccination to reduce the reaction to the live vaccine. However, this plan although originally intended, was never carried out?
A. Yes. That is so.
Q. Now, Professor, we were talking about your letter to Professor Hirt of 15 [13] November 1943, in which you ask him to make other prisoners available. Was this request met later and were you able to carry out vaccinations in Natzweiler later with your new vaccine?
A. Yes. I received the persons I had requested, and in December of 1943 and January of 1944 we were able to carry out these vaccinations. I performed them in two groups of 40 persons each with my live attenuated virus which is no longer pathogenic to human beings, and this I want to state explicitly.