Dr. Flemming: I now turn to the gas gangrene experiments. When examining the defendants Handloser, Rostock, Schroeder, Genzken, and the witness Bernhard Schmidt, we heard to what extent gas gangrene became prevalent at the front. I refer you to the Document NO-578, Prosecution Exhibit 284. I shall have it submitted to you. Would you please tell the Tribunal whether, in connection with gas gangrene, there was an extreme necessity in concentration camps and in the army to discover protective means to combat this disease?
Defendant Mrugowsky: It was pointed out frequently that no infection can be taken so seriously in the surgical field as the infection by gas gangrene, since the mortality cases of these injuries were very high. In concentration camps, as Noeling told me, we often had cases of gas gangrene. Therefore, the Asid Works suggested that vaccine should be used in the same manner as in the case of diphtheria. This was done in these works sometimes in cases of tetanus. Such vaccine against gas gangrene was produced by the Behring Works and was tested on students at Marburg University at first, about which a publication is available. I received a small part of this gas gangrene toxin in order to protect people in danger. This gas gangrene toxin I gave to Noeling and he used it at Buchenwald. The chart is available concerning persons on whom this vaccine was used. It becomes evident from that that there is even an increase in temperature following that vaccination, and that we are here concerned with a completely harmless project which has nothing at all to do with an infection.
Q. Dr. Ding in an affidavit (NO-257, Pros. Ex. 283) stated that at the Military Medical Academy a conference took place on the question of gas gangrene serum. What do you know about that?
A. It is correct that such a conference actually took place. Whenever gas gangrene occurred a large amount of gas gangrene serum had to be used for treatment in order to insure success. It was not a mere ten or fifteen cubic centimeters, but 400 to 800 cubic centimeters which was given to the patient in the course of a few days. In Germany all serums which are obtained from animals, mostly horses, are mixed with 0.5 percent of phenol and carbolic acid—in order to preserve them—i. e., to 400 cubic centimeters I added a concentration of two cubic centimeters of phenol acid. This amount is, of course, far above the tolerance of human beings. Carbolic acid is one of the strongest acids we possess. When treating people with gas gangrene serums a number of deaths occurred. We discussed whether we were dealing with cases of serum death, resulting from the serum, or whether death was caused by the phenol added. Ding and I participated in that conference with others.
Q. Did you give Dr. Ding an assignment on the basis of this discussion to test this phenol question?
A. Yes, I told him to study the literature and to make use of the libraries of the pharmacological and forensic medicine institute in Jena. He was in touch with those institutes.
Q. Did you give him the assignment to participate in euthanasia with phenol?
A. No. I never heard anything about his having carried out such euthanasia, or of such killings having been carried out. I could not, therefore, have given him any such order.