Dr. Flemming: Mr. President, I have already submitted the affidavit by Dr. Konrad Morgen. (Mrugowsky 29, Mrugowsky Ex. 36.) When I submitted it I read the first one and one-half pages. I should now like to read the following portion:
“Professor Dr. Timm”—that is, the forensic medical expert from Vienna who performed the autopsy on Koehler—“came to the opinion that there were two possibilities: first, that a South American poison had been used which was totally unknown to us and which dissolves completely in the human body; second, that a combination of drugs had been used. One drug had excited the circulation to the point of exhaustion, the other drug had acted as an antidote. Professor Dr. Timm spoke of the possibility that pervitin had been used together with a soporific. The idea that a South American poison had been used was rejected from a criminological point of view. From a technical point of view the second possibility would have been quite possible.
“I had to report the case to the Reich Security Main Office. Subsequently, a conference took place in the Reich Security Main Office at which quite a number of persons were present. The chief of the Reich Security Main Office [sic], Gruppenfuehrer Mueller, presided. Gruppenfuehrer Nebe of the Reich Criminal Police was also present, as well as Professor Dr. Mrugowsky. At the conference various persons, among others also Dr. Mrugowsky, pointed out that pervitin was not a poison, that it could be obtained without a prescription. One of the gentlemen present pointed out that in America experiments were carried out where up to 100 tablets of pervitin were administered and the effects were not fatal. But no one present could answer the question of whether a combination of pervitin and a soporific would be harmless, or whether it would lead to an increased reaction to any one direction. The latter appeared improbable to the experts. In order to settle this question Gruppenfuehrer Mueller ordered that an experiment be conducted. He ordered that Dr. Ding, whom he knew, should conduct this experiment in Buchenwald.
“It was ruled that in this experiment, which was to settle the purely criminal side of the question, only minute quantities of pervitin and soporific should be used, since it would be impossible to give large quantities of pervitin and a soporific unobtrusively to the prospective victim. Moreover, larger quantities of these drugs would have been found in any case by means of a chemical analysis. The scientific theoretical problem concerning the harmfulness or even deadliness of maximum doses did not interest anyone.
“I was present at the experiments at Buchenwald.
“Five persons were presented to us for testing, because Gruppenfuehrer Mueller had ordered experiments to be conducted on five persons. I checked the papers of the persons to be experimented on prior to the experiment. They were Russians who had deserted, or workers, who had formed a gang, stolen, and plundered, and had even been charged with murder. They had all been sentenced to death before a special court in Pomerania. Gruppenfuehrer Mueller had already previously been given the order for their execution.
“I had agreed with Dr. Ding that a preliminary experiment should be made on three persons to see the kind of reaction this combination had in the organism. Some of the condemned could speak German. They were told that the experiments were neither dangerous nor painful, and that by taking part they would at least put off their execution. Thereupon they all volunteered. Dr. Ding chose three of them. They were transferred to Block 46. There they were given a dose of pervitin and a subcutaneous injection of a soporific. Then they had to go to bed. They fell asleep. Their sleep was very restless. One of them slept for 20 hours. The others awoke a little earlier * * *.”
Then he says that none of them showed the symptoms which Koehler had shown, and that the experiment was considered completed. In the last sentence of the next paragraph he says, “Therefore, I told Dr. Ding that he should not make any more experiments, and I reported this to Gruppenfuehrer Mueller.” I shall read the last paragraph in another connection.
According to the affidavit of Dr. Morgen, Mueller ordered Ding to carry out the experiment at Buchenwald. Did you receive a report on this experiment?
A. No, I did not receive a report on it.