Q. Goebbels’ speech before the members of the People’s Court is contained in Document NG-417, Prosecution Exhibit 23.[167]
What were the opportunities at the disposal of those power groups and which they made use of in their struggle against the administration of justice?
A. Himmler, Bormann, and Goebbels were the closest confidants of Hitler. They had access to him at any time. For him they represented the uncompromising incarnation of national socialism. He listened to them when they alleged national socialism was being endangered by the administration of justice. The entire apparatus of Party politics, police, and espionage was at their disposal. On the other hand, the Ministry of Justice was entirely isolated. Contact between the ministries, which would have strengthened its position, no longer existed.
Q. Here I would like to refer to the verdict of the IMT, English transcript, page 16963[168], and I would like to quote that passage briefly: “As to the first reason for our decision, it is to be observed that from the time that it can be said that a conspiracy to make aggressive war existed the Reich cabinet did not constitute a governing body, but was merely an aggregation of administrative officers subject to the absolute control of Hitler.”
Witness, will you continue, please?
A. In view of that situation, what could a Ministry of Justice do which was directed merely by an Under-Secretary as acting Minister who, furthermore, was not a member of the Party and whose words, naturally, did not get the same hearing as those of a Minister; a man who, as the indictment said, never attained cabinet rank? According to an express instruction by Hitler, the chief only was told those things which were necessary for him to fulfill his own task. It is evident that that instruction made possible all kinds of limitations. * * *
(Recess)
Q. Witness, before the recess we discussed the possibilities at the disposal of these power groups. Please, will you continue.
A. I ventured to point out that Hitler had given an explicit order that a chief of any office should only be instructed about that which he had to know in order to carry out his tasks. And that went very far. That situation is better explained by the fact that Minister Guertner, for instance, only found out about the euthanasia decree[169] when in reports on the situation rendered by the presidents of the district courts of appeal, a certain suspicion arose that this decree was carried out, and Guertner categorically demanded an elucidation. Whereas other ministers were authorized to listen to foreign broadcasts, that was prohibited to the Minister of Justice under threat of punishment. When I objected against this, I was told in reply that I should turn to the Ministry of Propaganda which would inform me about everything that happened.
I may point out that the opinion of the International Military Tribunal states that on account of the control over broadcasting and the press, and the propaganda machine, an independent judgment based on freedom of thought became an absolute impossibility. I, from my own experience, can only confirm that statement. A significant example is given by the following occurrence—an example showing the extent of that spy system. The Gauleiter of East Prussia had protested against the administration of justice in his district. In order to examine these complaints in 1940 or 1941—I do not know the date precisely any more—I traveled to Koenigsberg and found out that as for the reports by the president of the district court of appeal, the Gauleiter was informed about these reports sooner than I was. Based on warnings received from reliable sources, I had to expect that in the various offices of the municipality which I had to visit, special microphones had been installed for the occasion of my visit, and I could only talk with my personal Referent by driving out to the beach and picking out an isolated beach chair there in order to be able to talk to him without anybody listening to us and spying on us.