Q. Could you name other personalities who in that manner fought against the administration of justice?
A. From the inside, unfortunately, yes. I have not completed my statement. I am thinking of Thierack. Thierack had very close connections to Bormann. He concentrated his efforts at first on the President of the People’s Court, a position he held at the time. Behind the back of the Ministry of Justice in 1936, he arranged that Hitler make a speech before the People’s Court. As these proceedings have shown, in 1937 he had attempted to arrange another speech of that kind.
Q. The witness refers here to Document NG-209, Prosecution Exhibit 105.[173]
A. The judges of the People’s Court in this manner should be brought to understand that the People’s Court was an institution of a special nature, in closest connection to Hitler himself; and that it was only by a mistaken step that the People’s Court had been incorporated into the administrative structure of the Ministry of Justice; and concerning that administrative connection in 1938, again in all secrecy, he tried through the Chief of the Reich Chancellery, to have the presidency of the People’s Court, following the Italian example, subordinated immediately to Hitler. To my knowledge, Thierack, after he became Minister,[174] did not continue with these attempts. As I was informed from various sources, in his attempts to become Minister, he is alleged to have promised to the Party that the office of the prosecution should be turned over to the police. I shall later refer to the occurrences during the trial of the Czech Minister-President Elias; but in the end I still have to emphasize what extraordinary difficulties were made for me by the personality of Freisler.
Q. Who was Freisler?
A. Well, the witness Behl once characterized Freisler as the representative of the Party interests in the Ministry of Justice. That was correct. His career was the following: Freisler was a prisoner of war in Russia during the First World War. After the end of the war he remained in Russia for a considerable period of time. About his activities during that period of time in Russia, a veil has never been completely lifted. After he returned, he became an attorney at Kassel, mainly acting as defense counsel for National Socialists. When the Prussian Ministry of Justice was put in the hands of Minister Kerrl, the latter called the old Party member, Freisler, to the post of Under Secretary. He remained there until in 1934, on the occasion of the merger of both offices in 1934, he was transferred to the Reich Ministry of Justice. Freisler no doubt possessed a high degree of intelligence, but quite apparently he was of abnormal spiritual inclinations that ranged from extreme brutality all the way to a rather feminine weakness. After he had insulted his assistants in the worst possible manner without any reason, it would occur that soon after he came to them to ask for their forgiveness in a very servile manner. The Tribunal has actually made the acquaintance of Freisler optically and acoustically.[175] He was quite well informed about problems of criminal law, but he lacked any continuity and seriousness in his work. He was restless and imbued with a lust for power, always looking for new tasks and new problems. He was an old Party member, and he had the Golden Party Badge, but he represented that type of National Socialist who again and again fearfully vied for the favor of Hitler. Hitler definitely recognized him as a one hundred percent National Socialist, but personally did not think as much of him as Freisler would have liked. Therefrom, and from his task to supervise the Ministry from the National Socialist point of view, and from his indisputable intelligence and his expert knowledge in the field of criminal law, the dangerous qualities in his personality could be seen. He knew where he had to start in order to achieve his goals. To work with him was extremely difficult, and I may well say here that Freisler was the one, after all, who undermined the work and the strength of Guertner and contributed to his early death. And so, as far as I was concerned, my continuous attempts to restrict Freisler made it extremely difficult for me in my position. He did not stick to decisions which we had made in long debates. He made secret promises to the [Nazi] Party which, after they became apparent, restricted the Minister in his possibilities of action.
Again and again I discovered that, partly intentionally, partly out of neglect, he had failed to report to me on important occurrences. He had prohibited his ministerial directors from reporting to me directly. He wanted to do everything alone. In addition, although he did not drink much, he could not restrain himself once he started to drink, and in a condition of that kind he frequently made statements which gave an entirely wrong picture of the intentions of the Minister. Then when the disappointment came, when the agencies concerned found out that the practice of the Ministry was not according to these statements, then, of course, there were serious accusations on the part of the Party and a renewed struggle.
His unstable nature brought it about that when I made objections to him he, frequently in tears, promised to better himself; but his moral strength was not sufficient to make him keep these promises for any length of time.
Of course, my position with regard to Freisler was weaker than that of Guertner. I was, indeed, in charge of the work of the Ministry, but only due to the fact that I was the senior Under Secretary; otherwise we were on the same level. The possibility of influencing him or influencing others against him, was very limited for me, all the more because my mission was not set for a certain time, but could be repealed any day. Therefore, I could only find the optimal accomplishment of my tasks in maintaining the status quo in the Ministry of Justice as it was at the time of Guertner’s death; especially if one takes into consideration as a matter of course that on the one hand the attacks from the Party became stronger, being faced with a weaker man in charge of the Ministry, and that on the other hand this weaker man was always confronted with the necessity of an increased resistance on his part.
In these proceedings here the witness, Father Wein,[176] confirmed that during the time when I was in charge of conducting the affairs, the administration of justice had not deteriorated and that only the appointment of Thierack brought about an absolute change-over. I ask you to try to understand that in that I found a justification for the work of my life under these conditions as I have described them.