What their motives were, I naturally can’t say but in accordance with all the previous and subsequent events, immediately after the conference, I am bound to assume that Himmler and Thierack did not exactly regard me as their ally in such plans, and that during the first conference which I attended, they quite deliberately created the impression that they were making certain concessions. As to whether they, themselves, were not certain of themselves, as to whether Hitler really had a certain amount of understanding for my plans I cannot tell of course; but as far as the early period is concerned, that is possible. And now Thierack, I do not know when, for it cannot be seen from the file note (654-PS, Pros. Ex. 39), which bears no date, summarized the results of both discussions; that is to say, the conference which I attended and the following conversation between Himmler and Thierack alone, in this file note, without differentiating between them. It seems that a part of this file note was added by him only at a later time. I gather so from the original document, according to which some of the document was added later on by a different typewriter. That part concerns the last item, point 14, the question of the transfer of the administration of penal justice over Jews and Poles.
Q. Dr. Rothenberger, may I put another question to you in this connection? If I understood you rightly, you wanted to tell us that Thierack and Himmler were uncertain toward you and did not quite know where they stood with you. To what do you attribute that feeling that they had, that they did not quite know where they stood with you?
A. Mainly I think that feeling was caused by my memorandum. I assumed that Himmler knew that memorandum and that Himmler was not certain whether Hitler was really supporting the ideas of that memorandum.
Q. Did the unusual way in which you came to Hitler play any part in that?
A. No doubt, for Himmler and Thierack both knew that I had been appointed by Hitler himself in an unusual manner.
Presiding Judge Brand: You have covered that.
Dr. Wandschneider: Thank you. May it please the Tribunal, may I continue with my examination?
Presiding Judge Brand: Yes.
Dr. Wandschneider: What was your first impression after the conference?
Defendant Rothenberger: My first impression after the conference was favorable. Immediately after the conference, I told Reich Cabinet Councilor Ficker so. That too can be seen from Document NG-059, Prosecution Exhibit 38. I believed that that favorable impression was due to the fact that in regard to the main problems of the administration of justice, Himmler had not prevailed with his view. He had not asked to have the prosecution transferred. Concerning the correction of sentences and that of the Schwarze Korps, he had given assurances, in the problem of the asocial law, too, he had withdrawn his demand, and the question of the transfer of prisoners had at any rate remained open.