A. No, I do not know that letter either.
*******
Q. And then at the end of 1943, how did your leaving the Reich Ministry of Justice come about?
A. Yesterday I briefly mentioned the fact that as early as in April of 1943, after Thierack had tried to transfer me to the Reich Supreme Court in January but had stated that the time was not yet ripe for that, at that time I offered him my resignation which he rejected. Furthermore, I had mentioned that at the same time that did not keep him from starting investigation proceedings against me the same time of that year 1943 without my knowledge for the allegedly illegal procurement of furniture. That Thierack was primarily interested in getting rid of me in a manner which would give the impression to the outside world that I was being dishonorably discharged is proved by what I shall say briefly about my finally leaving the office.
Yesterday I also mentioned the fact that Thierack, as early as September 1942, kept my book for about 3 months. The German Judge—
Presiding Judge Brand: You need not repeat what you said yesterday; we remember it. Go on to something new.
Defendant Rothenberger: Yes. After Thierack had finally turned over this manuscript to the Party Chancellery and after it had been examined there for about 6 months, about in August or September—I am not quite sure about that date any more—of 1943 an SD report was received in the Ministry. Thierack put that SD report to me, and he told me it could be seen from that SD report that a plagiarism was contained in that book. That book contained a short historical review of the position of the judge in the old Germanic and Franconian era, and several sentences concerning that era were allegedly taken from a book by a Professor Fehr. Professor Fehr, Thierack told me, was an emigree, who lived in Switzerland, and a democrat; and there was concern that one day the London broadcasting station might broadcast the information that the German reform of the administration of justice really emanated from an emigree who was a democrat and lived in Switzerland. He said that was extremely dangerous from the point of view of foreign policy, and that I had to clear it up.
I did not know the name “Fehr” at that time at all. As can be seen from the preface, a considerable number of my assistants in Hamburg had participated in the work on this book, and one of these assistants dealt with the historical part of the book. One year before, when no mention was made about the possibility of publishing that book, he had compiled that historical data for me, which I needed for a lecture that I was supposed to give in the Reich Ministry of Justice. The other day I stated that in August of 1941 I gave a lecture in the Reich Ministry of Justice about the segregation of the profession of judges from the usual civil servant class. That historical compilation was made for that purpose.
I had the matter clarified by that assistant, Dr. Brueckmann, and he said yes, that was correct, he had used several sentences from a book by Professor Fehr compiling the data, without having any opportunity at that time to know that it would lead to publication.
Thereupon, I told Thierack what the causes for that oversight had been. At no time did anybody, not even Thierack, make the assertion that there was any guilt on anyone’s part. But I told him the man who could be interested to see that some sentences of a general historic content such as could be found in any book, that such sentences would be also contained in my book would only be Professor Fehr. Therefore, I wrote a letter to Professor Fehr, explained it to him, and asked him if that should be necessary for an interview; and before that conference took place—it was intended to take place in January 1944—Thierack succeeded in having me dismissed, and that in the following manner: I was just on a duty trip at the beginning of December 1943. During that time he went to Lammers and reported to Lammers that an application had been made by professors of the city of Hamburg who, he said, had complained that I was still in office. That in other words, would have been colleagues of mine, because I myself was a professor at Hamburg at one time. He added that from the point of view of foreign policy one could no longer maintain the responsibility of keeping me in office, and therefore, he asked that Lammers should suggest my dismissal to Hitler. I was informed about that at the end of December 1943, that is to say, before that conference with Fehr was to take place. At the end of 1943 I was suddenly called on the telephone—I was at that time with my family, it was during Christmas—[and told] that I had to come to Berlin immediately and take Thierack’s place temporarily because he wanted to join his wife. Thierack called me into his office and told me, “Hitler has directed that you be dismissed.” Upon my question, “Why,” he answered that the matter with Fehr had gone so far on account of the application made by the professors from Hamburg that it was no longer bearable to keep me. I told him that he himself didn’t believe that, and I wanted to leave the room. Thereupon suddenly he became very friendly and soft and told me, why, of course the matter of that book was just the external pretense, but first of all, in the course of this year and a quarter, I had never succeeded in establishing good relations with the Party Chancellery and the SS. Moreover he said I was accused of having taken part in the funeral of Guertner, which I didn’t understand at all, how anybody could be so stupid to charge one with having attended the funeral of an extremely decent former Reich Minister of Justice. I replied if these are the real reasons, then I was proud of it. Before I left him he again lied to me by saying, yes, he would have liked very much to nominate me for the position of president of the Reich Supreme Court, but Lammers had raised opposition against that. Then a few days later I saw Lammers in order to inquire about the background of the story. Lammers told me just the opposite. It was he, he said, who tried to offer some office of some kind to me, but Thierack had been the person who rejected that. Through these circumstances the separation which had been pending for a long time actually took place, and without a new office, without gratitude, and without any compensation of any kind I left. And in accordance with that was the publication in all German newspapers where the following notice appeared, and I quote: “Change of office in the Reich Ministry of Justice. Upon the suggestion made by the Reich Minister of Justice the Fuehrer, after effecting the transfer of Under Secretary Rothenberger, into Wartestand [Civil Service inactive status] has appointed Ministerialdirektor Klemm, who up to that time was in the Party Chancellery, Under Secretary in the Ministry of Justice.”