On 3 August 1942, the Ministry of Justice distributes its first draft, which is draft number 1. The letter of 13 August 1942 shows the approval of the Reich Ministry of the Interior, with supplementary suggestions. In the meantime, however, the Ministry for Propaganda quite apparently, although there is nothing contained in this file about that, has made counterproposals and distributed those to all offices concerned. That can be concluded from the fact that on 13 August—that is to say, on the same day when the Ministry of the Interior first approved proposal number 1 with certain supplementary requests—on the very same day, the Ministry of Justice distributed suggestions for draft number 2, at the same time referring to suggestions made by the Ministry of Propaganda. That draft number 2 was approved on 20 August 1942 by the Food Ministry, which also stated requests for supplementation in its field, that is, in the field of civil administrative law. Then, on 9 September 1942, the chief of the Party Chancellery states his approval, and in that letter also the request is expressed that the suggested draft concerning a restriction of legal remedies for Jews should be supplemented.
As for the second phase, dealing with draft number 2, there are two events to be noted—one, a certain activity of the Reich Chancellery, that is to say Lammers, who suggests to the General Plenipotentiary for the Administration of the Reich, that is, the Reich Minister of the Interior, that he should see to it that these suggestions are adjusted to meet the requirements and then submitted.
And the second is a letter from the Reich Leader SS of 25 August 1942, who suggests a conference regarding draft number 2. On 10 September 1942, the High Command of the Wehrmacht also states its approval, and that second phase of developments ends with the result that the leading part is transferred from the Ministry of Justice to the Ministry of the Interior. The final conclusion of that phase is the letter from the Plenipotentiary for the Administration of the Reich, that is to say, the Ministry of the Interior to the participating supreme offices of the Reich containing draft number 3. Now the third and last phase of this development starts, and the procedure as submitted in documentary form by the prosecution for more than half a year does not produce any results as far as matters developed. In the documents submitted by the prosecution the only further development is that on 3 April 1943 the Minister of the Interior writes to the Reich Chancellery, that is to say, to Lammers and encloses a letter by Kaltenbrunner from the police of 8 March 1943 where the demand is made that the Jews should be completely removed from the administration of justice. These documents then contain only two further notations of the Reich Chancellery of 6 April 1943 and of 21 April 1943. The first notation deals with a conference between the Under Secretary Kritzinger on the part of Lammers, Reich Chancellery, Stuckart on the part of the Ministry of the Interior, and Klopfer for the Party Chancellery, the Party Secretariat. And the last notice of 21 April refers to a conference of various under secretaries from the Reich Chancellery, Party Secretariat, Ministry of the Interior, Ministry of Justice, and Kaltenbrunner on the part of the police. The result of that conference is what we designate as the 13th decree amending the Reich Citizen Law. The Party Chancellery letter from 9 September 1942 does only refer to draft number 2 of the Ministry of Justice, that is the draft of 13 August 1942. The problem of removing the Jews entirely from the administration of justice and to declare them incapable of inheriting property, that problem was not all under discussion at the time when that letter was written, and the suggestions made in that letter do not represent any change against the fundamental character of that draft. They supplement the draft only to the legal systematic side. In as far as the Party Chancellery suggests that legal remedies should be included, they are suggestions of a minor weight compared to those that are already planned in the draft. According to the draft, limitations were provided to appeals and revision, that is, matters which are directed to the next higher resort. Whereas in the suggestion for supplementation made by the Party Chancellery legal remedies are referred to which are normally directed to the same court in the form of a reminder or a complaint. The next suggestion to limit the right of challenging a judge is the same provision which is also part of the IMT charter. This letter of 9 September 1942 I did not draft. Besides since it was issued more than 1 month after the letter of 13 August, other offices must have participated. Who it was in Group III-C who drafted that letter and who was the referent dealing with the matter I can no longer tell. I cannot even recall ever having seen that letter such as Bormann signed it. It is quite possible that I was away on a duty trip and that my deputy signed it for me.
Q. I believe, Mr. Klemm, that that is sufficient.
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Q. Then, concerning Poles, Jews, and members of the Protectorate, Document 664-PS, Prosecution Exhibit 348,[416] was submitted, that is a circular letter from Himmler with the classification of secret, and was sent to all Reich authorities. Your initial is on that letter because it was received in the Ministry and apparently came to your attention. In this letter it is stated that posters such as “no Jews permitted to enter public places and stores” should disappear. It was no longer necessary to show such practice to the public because the people concerned by evacuating and isolating them were no longer there. I ask you, did that lead you to the conclusion that the Jews were to be exterminated or already, at the time of this circular, had been exterminated?
A. I would never have gotten a thought of that kind. I know nothing about the places in the East. I knew that Jews lived in a city for themselves in Theresienstadt near Leitmeritz. On the contrary, I remember having seen series of pictures in magazines, I believe pictures from Theresienstadt were shown of the Jewish mayor, of the Jewish police, also of the baths and restaurants, and similar things. Also, I believe from Warsaw, such pictures were shown in German illustrated magazines. One could not gather any more from that circular letter than that or conceive the thought that it had anything to do with the extermination or anything similar to it.
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Q. In addition, Document NG-900, Prosecution Exhibit 453,[417] was submitted against you. This concerns a document which treated so-called complaints of descent of Jews. The decisive question in this document is whether you, from the letter which is contained in this document, which was written by the chief of the SD and the Security Police, could gain the conviction that Jews should be exterminated. If you have the document in front of you—it consists of several letters—the first is of 3 May 1944, there the chief of the SD writes to the Reich Minister of Justice in this letter, and the subject is a request for information about reports regarding Jews. Please comment on this.
A. In regard to the first question I can only repeat what I have already stated in regard to Prosecution Exhibit 348. No such thought ever occurred to me. Moreover, I only saw the introductory letter of this document on which the Minister had written “V”—which meant “Vortragsanordnung,” schedule of report. With that, the matter was taken out of my sphere of activity.