A. First of all, in order to correct you, I would like to say that I never saw my personnel files, as you assume, Mr. Prosecutor. I do not know at all what is written in these personnel files. As far as the question is concerned whether I have a tangible momento of my participation in the Hitler Putsch, I have to answer that this momento was limited to a pass which permitted me to participate in the festivities which took place yearly on 8 and 9 November in Munich—
Q. Ah—
A. And I may also add that I only seldom made use of this pass.
Q. What number was that card or pass?
A. Unfortunately I don’t recall.
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Q. Now, Dr. von Ammon, there is just one thing further in this custody-of-the-Gestapo business that confuses me. After the arrangement had been made late in 1944 to transfer these Nacht und Nebel prisoners to the Gestapo for protective custody, there has been a lot of talk here about the fact that the court authorities finally handed these people over to the Gestapo, at least in some measure.
What actually was involved in this handing over of Nacht und Nebel prisoners to the Gestapo as far as the courts and the justice administration were concerned? By handing over, what actually did happen, so far as the courts and the Ministry are concerned? Did you sign a release? Did you actually put them in trucks and take them to the other side of town, or what happened?
A. Unfortunately I cannot give you that information. You have to turn to the Referent of the department for penal administration, to the witness Hecker,[492] who carried out those transfers.
Q. Dr. von Ammon, with respect to the winding up of the Nacht und Nebel affairs in the Ministry in the handing over of these people to the Gestapo, the witness Hecker in Exhibit 416[493] says that you attended a number of the conferences during which this method was ironed out. It’s surprising that you don’t know how it happened. How did these people get off your hands? Was it a paper transfer, or what was it?