The question whether that House had the power to interfere with the Executive authority, by withholding appropriations, had been fully discussed in a former Congress, and the opinion of the country was not now to be fixed on this subject. For that part of the House who thought the constitution had not vested them with the authority of controlling the Executive, it was sufficient to say that the Executive had thought it necessary to introduce the change in the diplomatic department, which was complained of, and that they felt themselves bound to carry his determination into effect; but those who think that the House of Representatives may control the Executive in this respect, will of course act accordingly.
Mr. Baldwin said he perceived there was a real difference of opinion between the gentleman last up and himself. The gentleman supposed the diplomatic establishment was fixed by the Executive, and the Legislature had nothing to do with it but to provide the money. Every person must see, even from a cursory view of the constitution, that this was designed to be a Government of departments, Legislative, Executive, and Judicial, to be kept distinct as far as possible. It was the business of the Legislature to establish offices by law; it was the business of the Executive to fill those offices. It would appear, from tracing back the law, now proposed to be continued, that it originated in this manner. He had not been notified of the subject as being likely to be called up to-day, and was not prepared to be as particular as he could wish as to facts. He had endeavored to refresh his recollection since it had been under discussion, and he found that it originated from the Speech of the President, at the opening of the second session of the first Congress, in which he said, "that the interests of the United States required that our intercourse with other nations should be facilitated by such provisions as will enable me to fulfil my duty in that respect; and to this end, that the compensations to be made to the persons who may be employed, should, according to the nature of their appointments, be defined by law." This part of the Speech was referred to a committee, and from that originated this law. Want of information, at that early time in the Government, prevented their being as particular as they wished. They fixed a sum to each grade, and a sum beyond which the whole amount should not extend; limited the law to a short period, that it might be open to be corrected by experience. The present motion, if he had understood it, proposed now to be a little more particular in the establishment, by fixing the sum for particular places—to do the very thing then recommended by the President. The same has always been the intention of every succeeding Congress, which was the reason why they continued it only for short periods, leaving it open to such amendments as should be suggested by experience. These ideas of the offices being first to be established by law, appeared not only to be the sense of the former President, and of each succeeding Congress, as he had stated, but appeared also to be the opinion of the present President. At the last session he thought that a higher grade of office was necessary at Algiers: this he stated in a message to Congress—that as there were great expenditures of money on that coast, he thought it necessary that an establishment should be made which would enable him to appoint a very confidential person, on whom the other officers there should be dependent, and who should control their proceedings and expenditures. Congress concurred in this opinion, passed a law for the establishment of the office, and then the Executive appointed the officer. For these reasons he considered the question within their proper powers, and fairly open to their deliberation.
At the close of the revolutionary war, the disposition of forming many treaties, and having extensive diplomatic connections with European powers, was carried even further than it has been since. It was among their first national acts, and discovered marks of youth and inexperience; a few years convinced them that they had gone too far, that this country had little to expect from treaties, and much to lose, and that many diplomatic connections were more frequently the cause of perplexity and embarrassment, than of any national advantage. The Congress under the articles of confederation were extricating themselves from that policy as fast as possible; as these expired in course, they were careful not to renew them. For several of the last years of that Congress he well recollected that clusters of candidates for these appointments, supported by powerful interests and connections, were uniformly resisted; and, if he mistook not, when this Government came into operation, this country had but one Minister in Europe. The conviction on this subject was so strong, and experience had so fully settled it as the true policy, that it remained immoveable for some time after organizing the present Government. All appropriations for foreign Ministers were refused at the first session, as far as he recollected. At the second session it was urged, in the Speech of the President, as before stated, and enforced by more particular explanations to individuals, as designed to be for temporary purposes, respecting the Northern forts and the property that was withheld. Under these explanations a law passed, as before explained. It was true, this policy had been of late, in some measure, departed from. He thought experience had already been useful to them in this course also, and ought to administer caution to them in seeking to intermingle in European politics. Ambassadors and Ministers cannot be entirely indifferent to the characters and events with which they are constantly surrounded; the share they take is very apt to be exchanged between the countries to which they belong. He did not wish to be too particular on that point; he was persuaded facts enough presented themselves to the recollection of every member, to confirm his remark. It might be said that on this also we have an awful lesson. If evil had been experienced from this cause, he hoped it would operate as a reason to endeavor to diminish it. He thought it not unreasonable for the House to interpose their restraining power as to granting money, and the more particular establishment of the officers, and thus aid the other departments of the Government in bringing back, by degrees, this part of our policy to its former principles, so well sanctioned by experience. Whether the present motion was well timed, or whether it was best to give it another short limitation, before we went into a definite establishment, was another question, on which he was willing to hear more remarks. Informed as he was at present, he should vote for the motion, and thought they might make some amendments to the former bill, already suggested by experience, and which would be useful.
The committee rose, and had leave to sit again.
Friday, January 19.
Foreign Intercourse.
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill providing the means of foreign intercourse, when
Mr. Pinckney rose. He understood the amendment was intended to confine our Ministers Plenipotentiary to London and Paris, and that no higher grade than Ministers Resident should be employed in any other country. He was opposed to this change at this time, and to the mode proposed of doing the business, if the time were seasonable. It was proper that at this juncture our Ministers should remain as they were, as it was prudent to derive all the influence and advantage we could from the situation of our agents in Europe, who would not only be enabled to communicate more correct information from thence, than could be derived from any other source, but who could also explain the motives and objects of this Government, and by that means remove any unfavorable impressions which may be attempted to be given with respect to this country; and thereby put our business in the best train for securing the neutral standing which we have taken. He was against it for another reason. To change the diplomatic intercourse in the way proposed, would be forcing upon the Executive a measure contrary to its wishes. It would also be affording testimony to the charge heretofore made, that there was a division in the Government and the people—a situation in which many wished to see us. He should be sorry to afford the appearance of one department of Government having forced upon another a change of measures of which they are the competent judges, and upon which they have acted. As it was well known that there was a very intimate connection between Spain and Holland, and the country with whom we have at present a misunderstanding, he should be unwilling to deprive this country of the advantages to be derived from having Ministers at those places; besides, if our Ministers were to be recalled from thence, it would be considered as an extraordinary proceeding; and might be construed as intended to be hostile to them. Whatever influence Spain or Holland may have in the councils of the country which he had alluded to, by continuing our Ministers there, it was probable that weight would operate in our favor. There was an additional reason with respect to Spain. It was well known that we had points yet to settle with that country. Our treaty with that power was not yet carried into effect, and negotiations might at this time be going on in relation to it, which might be frustrated by the recall of our Ministers.
Mr. Nicholas wished to explain his intentions in bringing forward this amendment. He believed the gentleman last up would find they nearly corresponded with his own. He had no idea of putting an immediate veto upon the Ministers at present employed. He considered this bill, though passed with a limitation, as a permanent system, and a subsequent clause of the bill would enable the committee to fix the time at which the salaries of Ministers should cease. His wish was to put a limit to this extension of Executive power. He reminded the gentleman from South Carolina that Holland was not concerned in this bill, as we had only a Minister Resident there. If the subject were further dilated upon, he should offer some further remarks upon it.
Mr. N. Smith was surprised to hear the gentleman last up considered that as a permanent provision which was limited to a duration of two years. This law was merely temporary in its nature, and if he only contemplated some future regulations in our foreign intercourse, his amendment was not now necessary. However competent it was for the Legislature to settle the salary of Ministers, it was clear the Legislature had no power, by the constitution either to determine the number of foreign Ministers to be employed, where they should be sent, or what should be their grade. Under the general power of making treaties, vested in the President, he had the power of sending Ministers where he pleased; also in the power intrusted to him of executing the law (not only the municipal, but the law of nations) it was necessary he should have this power.