And maybe these so-called gangs would just include two or three people in addition to the leader. This has been so long ago that it is very vague, but I do remember this.
And I remember that Oswald was pretty stocky and well built, and it seemed that the other boys used to look up to his—let me start over. They seemed to look up to him because he was so well built and husky and everything and it seemed like all the rest of us were a bunch of little guys, but I remember we would make reference to Lee being big and strong and this sort of thing. And this could be because, from what I judge, he was a little bit older than most of the boys, almost a year. The age makes a little more difference at that period than later on.
And it seemed that this so-called gang that he was head of seemed to be the top one, and all the boys would look up to anybody that was a member of his little group.
And they seemed to look up to him and he was considered sort of a tough-guy type, although not as a bully.
Mr. Liebeler. He wasn't a bully?
Mr. Vinson. Not that I remember. I don't think he was at all because I remember several other boys who were, and I just don't recall that he had any tendencies like that.
Mr. Liebeler. Do you remember him getting into any fights with anybody?
Mr. Vinson. No; none other than just playful fights, just wrestling out on the schoolground. Really not out of anger.
Mr. Liebeler. He never had any occasion to fight with these other boys who you have described as bullies?
Mr. Vinson. Not that I recall.