Q. The idealistic points of view are associated with the state of war, are they not, aside from the last one?
A. No, I do not agree, because if any coercion were brought to bear upon these prisoners to serve in medical experiments, that would soon—within a week—come to the attention of the newspaper reporters and would appear on the front page of every paper—most every paper in the United States.
Q. I should like to tell you again what Jones says here. He says: “Others have patriotic motives * * * many have sons and brothers in the armed services.” Captain Jones gives that as the main reason. And then other individuals are brought up who make statements in the same sense to the same effect. Is that not so?
A. I believe that is entirely reasonable; because an individual is a prisoner in a penitentiary is no reason why he should not be patriotic or love his country.
Q. Perhaps you will admit that no one would give that as his motive for helping before a German de-Nazification court, namely, that he wanted to help the army.
A. I did not get the question. Will you please repeat it?
Q. Never mind. Now, Witness, of the experiments we have here, none of these volunteers were outside the penitentiary; now, why did not persons outside the penitentiary volunteer in the malaria experiments: businessmen or teachers, for example? Because we must assume that not only inmates of penitentiaries have ideals.
A. As I explained yesterday, conscientious objectors were used, and prisoners were used, instead of teachers and businessmen because those individuals had no other duties to perform. Their time was fully available for purposes of experimentation.
Q. Is it not an evil to carry out experiments?
A. No.