Once when I had a conversation with Kerrl, the Minister of Justice of Prussia at that time, and visited with him the training camp for Prussian law students—a camp which has been repeatedly referred to in this trial—I said to him that it must have cost a great deal of money to set up that camp; Kerrl laughed and replied, quite frankly:
“Oh, it didn’t cost me anything. The amounts were donated by large firms, in whose cases we were very considerate about prosecuting them under penal law. Naturally, the money was not transferred to me directly, but it came to me via the Winter Relief [Winterhilfe] account. However, the Winter Relief Organization made it available to me, and with that money we built up a very decent camp, as you can see for yourself.”
I was more than disgusted when I heard about those practices he thus unveiled. I made a report to Guertner.
The right of supervision over the Ministries of Justice of the Laender, was not in the hands of the Reich Minister of Justice. Guertner and I agreed that those practices must be stopped at the earliest possible moment, all the more so since one did not know whether or not in other Laender, similar things might be happening as were happening in Prussia. One could not tell what was happening because the ministries of the Laender throughout had new men working with them concerning whose persons, in some cases, one had certain misgivings, and justified misgivings. Frank was the Minister of Justice for Bavaria, and Thierack was the Minister of Justice for Saxony.
That experience increased Guertner’s energy in carrying out his work of centralization. The basis for that work was laid down in the first and second centralization laws dated 16 February and 5 December 1934.[180]
The result of the centralization, the transfer of the tasks of the Ministries of Justice of the Laender to the Reich, was this, from the political angle: The entire administration of justice from now on lay in the hands of a minister who was not a member of the Party and who, as Minister of Justice for Bavaria, had enjoyed the confidence of all parties from the extreme right to the extreme left. I myself, who also was not a member of the Party, remained at my post. The National Socialist Ministers of Justice of the Laender lost their official positions in the administration of justice.
The opinions of the Party as to the centralization of the administration of justice is evidenced best by a statement of Goering’s, which he made to me in 1941 when, in the course of a conversation, I said to him that the Party at every opportunity made difficulties for our ministry, he said to me: “That cannot surprise you. The reason lies in the centralization of the administration of justice under the circumstances under which it was achieved. That is the reason why the Party as a group is opposed to the Reich Ministry of Justice and makes life as difficult as possible for that ministry. The Party is of the opinion that the administration of justice should again be taken over by National Socialist hands.” Goering added, “I myself will never pardon Guertner and you for the way you acted in 1934.”
Q. I shall submit Schlegelberger Document 26, Schlegelberger Exhibit 66,[181] in reference to the aforesaid statements. Will you please give us a brief description of the organization of the Reich Ministry of Justice?
A. Under the very top, that is, under the Reich Minister of Justice, there were two separate under secretariats: the under secretariat for civil law matters, the head of which was myself; the direction of the secretariat for penal law matters which was in the hands of Freisler. Further, he was in charge of the so-called organization section [Organisationreferat], the Hereditary Farm Law [Erbhofrecht] and the Inspection Office for Judicial Affairs [Justizpruefungsamt].
Under the two under secretariats there worked a total of six ministerial directors each of whom was the head of his specialized divisions. The number of these divisions and their sphere of work changed several times in the course of time.