Q. That is what I mean. Was there more involved?
A. For instance, in cases of insidious attacks[218], a directive by the Ministry of Justice was required. That directive, as far as I know, came about in cooperation with the Party Chancellery.[219] It is true that the Party Chancellery, certainly before it rendered its decision, received information from the Gauleitung concerned with that case. But I believe that I am not mistaken to assume that Rothaug, even beyond that in local cases of political significance, tried to get the opinion of the Gauleitung concerned.
Q. You told us yesterday that you discussed pending cases on the points of view of the general development of criminality. Was that the basis of your conferences on Saturdays and later on at more frequent occasions?
A. Perhaps I can make the answer a little clearer by emphasizing the circumstances under which this more intense cooperation with the Special Court under Rothaug, in particular, came about. The conference between Doebig and the others was concerned with the official agreement, as I have said. The position and the tasks of the SD are known to you. I assume that the SD was in a position to obtain these official informations and opinions from the official sources, but we had to try to find out about the matters which were, for instance, in the more detailed files—matters about which information cannot be obtained through regular channels—or to find out about matters which went beyond the pattern of an official opinion about a penal case; that is to say, as we have explained before, a particular experience or an opinion about another court. The obtaining of that information could only be the case if as an SD man I had a closer connection to Rothaug beyond the official character of my mission. And Rothaug, after that first official conference with Doebig—in a conference between himself and myself—stated that he was prepared to do so.
Q. Did you take up contact with other officials of the administration of justice in your position at that time?
A. Here again I have to deal with the administrative organization. As you have heard yesterday, the Abschnitt, after the SD Main Office, was the next lower echelon. It was not our task as such in all fields, let’s say of law and of administration, to obtain and to collect material of information. That task remained to the so-called field offices. I believe we had five in Nuernberg. These field offices as far as I am informed had their confidential agents again; and that there were legal men—members of the court—among those, is quite known. As far as my mission was concerned, that is to say, in order to appraise and evaluate the material which came from the field offices, I needed of course a qualified person, an expert, who had a wider field of experience; and for that purpose I needed Rothaug. He agreed, and he also had the right attitude.
Q. Yesterday you spoke about the slackening of the security machinery during the war. Could you remember that preventive measures against danger arising through conditions of war was part of the discussions and conferences with Rothaug?
A. You mean measures to be taken by leadership offices?
Q. In order to prevent possibilities of dangers arising from special conditions, arising from emergencies of war.
A. Of course.