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Q. Witness, I want to go over to another point. What concrete reasons do you have for judging what influence Rothaug had on Haberkern in regard to the leadership of the Gau; what influence was exerted through Haberkern on the Gau leadership?
A. I know that Rothaug was at the Hotel Haberkern, at the so-called Stammtisch [club table], that he was seen there frequently; I know, furthermore, partly from having been present there myself, in the “Blaue Traube” restaurant [Hotel Haberkern] that other leading men of the Gau were also present there. For example, the Kreisleiter Zimmermann occasionally; also the Higher SS Police Leader Dr. Martin and several other people; and I know furthermore that, at this Stammtisch, matters concerning the Gau were discussed. I can further say with quite a good deal of certainty that Haberkern, especially in legal questions, based himself on the advice and actions of Rothaug, since Haberkern, as I believe I emphasized already yesterday, as Gau Inspector, at any time could have insight into any matters which were of interest to the Gau and what was going on inside the Gau; he could, of course, on the basis of this insight inform the competent Gauleiter.
Q. Did the Gau not have a definite office for handling legal questions?
A. Yes, the Gau had a legal office, the Gaurechtsamt.
Q. Was Rothaug in charge of this office?
A. No. Rothaug was in the National Socialist Legal Workers Association [NSRB] the head of which in Gau Franconia, at times was also the head of Gaurechtsamt, namely Oeschey. In the NSRB, Rothaug had the position of a Gau group leader of the [group] judges and prosecutors; you know that the NSRB was composed of [several] groups.
As Gau group leader of [group] judges and prosecutors, Rothaug was in the Gau Franconia, the judge, the leading jurist, politically; who also from the political point of view, especially the personnel policies of the Party had the primary influence on it—the most important influence, that is, on the Gau leadership. The Gau leader depended a great deal on its own initiative or due to the questions by the Party Chancellery, who had to advise and give opinions on certain personnel policies, questions of personnel policy. The Gau leader and the Gaurechtsamtleiter had to find out Rothaug’s attitude.
Q. But, Witness, is it not evident already from the fact that the Gau leadership had to turn to Rothaug via the Gaurechtsamtleiter that the Gaurechtsamtleiter was the decisive man, the advisor of the Gau leadership?
A. One should suppose that from the outside, just from looking at the organization, but actually I should suppose—I think I can say that with certainty, that the Spiritus Rector, shall we say the guiding and thinking spirit even under the leadership of Oeschey, was Rothaug.