EXTRACTS FROM THE TESTIMONY OF DEFENDANT ROTHENBERGER[277]
DIRECT EXAMINATION
*******
Dr. Wandschneider (counsel for defendant Rothenberger): We are now coming to a group of problems which were set down in Exhibits 38 and 39.[278] The exhibits are concerned with a discussion between Himmler and Thierack, in the presence of Dr. Rothenberger, as is said at the beginning of the transcript of 18 September. Dr. Rothenberger, would you tell us, please, who was your main opponent outside the administration of justice?
Defendant Rothenberger: Himmler, as the Reich Leader SS. That he was my opponent I had known for many years. I gathered that on the one hand from the fact that at public demonstrations I had repeatedly in view against all measures which had been taken against the administration of justice at the instigation of Himmler.
In particular, I remind you of the measures described in the Schwarze Korps against the German judges. I remind you of his measures which amounted to a correction of sentences. It was natural that the view which I had expressed in public as to what those measures would lead to, that Himmler through the SD service would have been informed of that. For me it was a matter of course, that Himmler would have been informed of the contents of my memorandum to Hitler, and that was proved right during the discussion later on. About that discussion Himmler knew that I had warned Hitler of the development of the administration of justice and of the development of the Reich as a whole, a development towards becoming a pure power state.
In particular Himmler knew from the memorandum[279] that I had requested that the entire administration of penal justice was to lie exclusively in the hands of the judiciary. That that constituted a camouflaged attack on the administration of justice by the Gestapo was naturally obvious to Himmler. That view of mine, namely, that Himmler for that reason harbored great distrust toward me, was confirmed to me not in the course of the discussion, but it was confirmed to me by the results of that discussion; and it was confirmed without any doubt. I saw Himmler once in my life and for the following reason:
He had sent out an invitation. Thierack said to me that I was to go along with him because it was a first official visit. We had only just assumed office and this was supposed to be my first official call on Himmler. We had not heard before what points were to be discussed there. One could only rely on suppositions. My supposition was that the problems which for years had been an object of dispute between the administration of justice and the police would probably be mentioned in the course of this discussion. Among those problems there were, in particular, the following questions:
On the one hand, the question of the transfer of the prosecution to the police, which has been mentioned here a few times, but the significance of which, I believe requires some explanation. I mean, it is significant for the entire set of proceedings and trials in Germany. The German prosecution at this trial here has repeatedly been described as the most objective authority in the world. Naturally, that was an exaggerated expression. But contrary to the Anglo-American procedure, what is correct about that statement is that the public prosecutor, because he has to deal with all elements that speak in favor of the defendant as well, constitutes a very far-reaching protective element for the defendant as well.
This is therefore for the entire method of proceedings, the position of the judge and in particular also the position of the defense counsel—which for that reason, too, is an entirely different position than it is under Anglo-American procedure—of essential importance.