Q. Ferber charges you generally, and particularly, in the case Katzenberger.
A. I intended to add, that it is therefore quite certain that at that session I also stated my opinion concerning the problem of race defilement on the basis of the doctrine of the State and on the basis of the legal system, and on the basis of our political and legal foundations. That I also discussed the danger in the manner that these things were regarded at that time according to the legal situation, the danger arising from the mixture of races to coming generations, that I consider to be a fact. What words I used and what thoughts I may have expressed in detail in discussing these matters, that, of course, I could no longer tell today. But what I object to is the assertion that these may have been statements of the level of the “Stuermer;” and with absolute certainty I should like to exclude the possibility that in that connection I demanded any physical destruction. That, according to the law, would not have been possible. That, of course, based on the fact of the war which went far beyond any racial point of view.
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Q. The witness Seiler in her direct examination testified that she and the defendant Katzenberger had denied under oath at various times those relations. Was Katzenberger heard under oath?
A. No, he was not heard under oath. That was not admissible under German law because German law holds that the defendant had to be entirely free to use all possibilities for his defense. That is considered a certain guarantee to aid in finding the truth.
Q. The witness Seiler also stated in her direct examination that the judge, Rothaug, used the assumption of her guilt as the basis for the entire conduct of the trial. The reason for that discrimination in her opinion had been that Rothaug did not want to hear any answer. Did you examine the witness Seiler thoroughly?
A. Of course, she was examined thoroughly, and I may point out—and that can be found also from reading the opinion—that this was a so-called case of circumstantial evidence, that a large number of individual situations of more or less importance were compiled in order to make it possible to reconstruct the circumstances which were of importance for the evaluation; and it was always like that, and it was no different in this Katzenberger-Seiler case, that I discussed with the defendants every phase and every little detail; not only in order to completely clarify any particular action, that of course, was the main purpose; but beyond that it was of importance to establish what the point of view of the defendants was, and how they described matters; that is the reason why that matter took a day and a half, and in addition to that, after the examination of every witness who offered something new, again the two defendants were heard thoroughly concerning the new situation. At any rate the evidence which was taken as the basis for the judgment, was discussed in all possible detail.
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Q. Among the judges concerned during the deliberations, was there any doubt about the guilt of Katzenberger?
A. I remember the deliberations very well. That conference was as peaceful as could be; for in the course of the trial, which lasted a day and a half, the entire occurrence, as far as the facts were concerned based upon the statements of the defendants and on what the witnesses testified to, had developed into such a clear picture that there could not have been any differences of opinion; and, after a very short time—and I remember that very well also—we arrived at a decision and actually started to write the judgment down, but considering the importance of the case, we extended the time for deliberations so that the impression should not be given that we wanted to pronounce a hasty decision. There were no difficulties at all, the reason being that the facts themselves were of compelling logic, and that anything else which was the consequence of the facts just arose from them logically and in the way one had to evaluate those things at that time, and of course, we could not evaluate it based upon any different philosophy.